What it takes to move from B to A?

[trackpimp]

I know there are a large amount of B-Group riders here on this forum, and just about everywhere else. B-Group at nearly every trackday regardless of the company is usually the first to fill up, followed by C-group, then A-Group.

I'd like to discuss what it takes to get people to move from B to A.. Why do you guys think some people never really make that jump. Some riders are even good enough for A from what I've seen, yet never seem to want to make that next logical step.

I think mostly its desire.. or lack of desire to go much faster than they're already going. there's also a bit of fear envolved.. "those guys are too fast.." or "..I don't want to get in anyone's way.."

I know there's a few people who've come to me at an event wanting to move up. they're right there on the border of going up.. We discuss some stuff, go out and ride.. And suddenly they look ready. From then on, they're A-Group all the time.

What are your thoughts on this subject. :movie

[whizbop]

Ego's maybe? It could be they want to be the fastest guy in the group and don' want to get relegated to the back of the pack?

[Gman]

Maybe they want to stay with the majority of B group riders that can't step up to A?

[zman]

Its scary because they hear Race Group and tink people are SUPER fast and they are afraid of getting in the way

if you can hold a line and want to learn to go faster , get good lines and make CLEAN passes then stop the B group nonsense and bump up already :thumb

[Nemesis]

I've been bumped to A Group and I was really reluctant in making the switch mainly out of fear but felt I had to give it a try. My first impression was..."Damn this is a lot of work"..."Felt pressured to go FAST all the time"..."200% concentration".

It felt good to know I can run A pace...but probably won't be running A pace because I like to run my own pace (whether that be from B to A or A to B, or even B to C) and not feel pressured to run A pace ALL THE TIME.

But I'll tell you one thing, watching them pass me in areas I've never thought to pass just :eek: the heck outta me. Oh, and the way those racers flick those bikes...man, amazing!

I like running B Group.

[cbrizzle]

I don't know why people would linger in B if they could get to A. I wanted to get out of B as fast as I could due to safety reasons (wide range of skill, speed, etc).

Maybe if you want to get more riders in A group dustin, why don't you give some B group riders that you feel are fast enough a free A group session for them if you don't sell out the A group that day. Maybe those riders will see that it really isn't so bad.

[trackpimp]

what we do when we see riders who look "ready".. we pull them aside, and and ask them to move up.. " dude.. lets try A group.. If you feel comfortable, stay there.. If not.. come back and we can discuss...".. They usually never come back and discuss ;)

[420]

"A" group sucks!! Stay away, those people are CRAZY!!!!

[Priapism]

I figure I'll move to A when I'm passing lots of people in B. So far I'm still getting passed more often than I pass :idunno

[nucking_futs]

It's people's comfort zone, once you find yours on the track it's tough to get people out of it.

[Research Monkey]

Dunno why i haven't bumped up... Probably fear. When I went from C to B I only did it when I was the one passing everybody and I was no longer getting passed. I'd like to do the same in B, where i'm in the top of the pack consistantly.

[Kurosaki]

I'm not fast yet. :idunno

[Spaceboy]

B group is the scarriest group out there. It has the biggest mix of different speeds by people that should be in A group and people that should still be back in C group. Personally I think fear keeps people from bumping up to A group. They think it's going to be harder to ride in and are going to have more "moments" with other riders on track with reguard to passing or being passed.
Now, with that being said I like the fact that A group is always last to fill up. It gives me more open track when I'm out there. :fastbike

[trackpimp]

some people move to A purely because its last to fill. I can totally get that for sure. And if you're not ready to move to A, I'm not really talking about you.. I'm talking about the guys who are ready skill-wise and are sort of in denial. Some people just like to stay whereever their buddies are riding..

[HoolieB]

Dustin -- which group has the most on-track incidents? (I'm gonna guess B, but that's purely a guess.)

My group -- C -- has incidents, but they're usually just run-offs and less serious get-offs. It seems A group has the least, but when they do happen they're usually fairly spectacular considering the speeds involved.

[triplestack3]

I like riding in A group. Riders generally do a better job holding lines and ride more predictably. It's also nice being able to sign up for a TD only a few days beforehand. I think it's safer and ends up being more fun in the end. There will ALWAYS be guys that are faster than me, so I don't feel any pressure to go extra fast. What it means is that there is a lot more open track.

I think a lot of people like B group because they can run laps with their friends. Sometimes it can get lonely out in A group, depending on the size of the group. It's fun passing guys like crazy, but at the same time it really sucks when you are digging through traffic instead of being able to focus on improving your riding.

The biggest block is mental. A group is NOT that intimidating once you are out there turning laps. You might be a little slower in the morning, but you will pick up the pace considerably by the end of the day and will probably become a faster, smoother rider just by riding with others who are faster and smoother.

[Spaceboy]

Well the trick then is to get your friends up to A group pace so you all can dise it out with open track.

-I would also bet that B group has the most ontrack incidents.

[Nemesis]

I'm curious to know how often do you control riders bump riders down?

I think more incidents occur in B Group because they're still in the transition of "learning on how to be fast", not so much because of slower riders per se.

I like passing slower peeps--forces me to take different lines at faster speeds and in return my skills get that much better.

[Spaceboy]

I'm curious to know how often do you control riders bump riders down?

I think more incidents occur in B Group because they're still in the transition of "learning on how to be fast", not so much because of slower riders per se.

I like passing slower peeps--forces me to take different lines at faster speeds and in return my skills get that much better.


Wouldn't following faster riders in A group show you different lines for passing as well as what speeds you can go through the corner at? It's nice to be the big fish in the little pond running around in B group but I think you would learn more and improve your skills faster by riding in A group. :idunno

"You" is meant in a general term not you directly. :owneddance

[trackpimp]

We don't call our guys "control riders".. but yeah, we bump people from B to C, and from A to B all the time.

[Spaceboy]

We don't call our guys "control riders".. but yeah, we bump people from B to C, and from A to B all the time.

What does it take to be a "control rider (for lack of another term)" with you guys Dustin?:scooter

[Nemesis]

Wouldn't following faster riders in A group show you different lines for passing as well as what speeds you can go through the corner at? It's nice to be the big fish in the little pond running around in B group but I think you would learn more and improve your skills faster by riding in A group. :idunno

"You" is meant in a general term not you directly. :owneddance

Not for me. Once they start to pull away you're main focus no longer becomes a "learning process" but rather "desperation" in trying to keep up which can and will lead to you biffin' it. Taking baby steps is my way.

[420]

What does it take to be a "control rider (for lack of another term)" with you guys Dustin?:scooter

ITB w/ Asian Dave and maybe Dustin if he is in the mood!

[Spaceboy]

Not for me. Once they start to pull away you're main focus no longer becomes a "learning process" but rather "desperation" in trying to keep up which can and will lead to you biffin' it. Taking baby steps is my way.


Isn't that still with knowing your limits and using baby steps to improve your own riding by going a little faster than you normally would by following trhe faster riders line?

[Spaceboy]

Not for me. Once they start to pull away you're main focus no longer becomes a "learning process" but rather "desperation" in trying to keep up which can and will lead to you biffin' it. Taking baby steps is my way.

ITB w/ Asian Dave and maybe Dustin if he is in the mood!


:iw2piiyb:worm


:movie

[Nemesis]

Isn't that still with knowing your limits and using baby steps to improve your own riding by going a little faster than you normally would by following trhe faster riders line?

Isn't that what laptimers are for? :biggrin2

[bRiT636]

When I am close enough in the lap times I will try A group and see if I am ready. While to go yet though....

[trackpimp]

What does it take to be a "control rider (for lack of another term)" with you guys Dustin?:scooter

i hand-pick all the staff myself. In the beginning (back in 2000) it was all the crew who used to ride in the canyons together. The last few years, I'll usually pick someone who is a regular TrackDaz participant. One who knows how we work etc.. We'll give em' a try-out.. If they can work well with the other guys, we let them stay.. If not.. Its no biggie.

:idunno

[zman]

When I am close enough in the lap times I will try A group and see if I am ready. While to go yet though....

I think lots of B group riders are doin A group pace already.

[420]

I posted a while back on the different types of motorcycle riders.

I think that the naturally fast people and the smart fast people will naturally migrate to the A group in a short period of time. The stupid riders are the ones that may think they should be in A and eventually will be there, but, like a good wine, need a little mellowing.
By far the largest group of riders out there are the "practice makes perfect group", and with good reason. They are the ones that need a little push here and there to get them to where they should be or need to be. They get comfortable with what they are doing and see no need to change or get stuck and keep doing the same thing expecting a different result. I think the TrackDaz and other Teaching/School/Instruction programs can really help this type of rider move up a class and make them faster and safer riders.

I think there are 4 types of fast riders:
1- fast cuz they're smart - analyze the situation, apply specific factors and produce a result (Stoner)
2- fast cuz they're stupid - hmmm... he can do it, so can I, but even faster - twist and go (me)
3- fast cuz they practice and ride, and ride, and ride - slowly get comfortable with speed than increase it and increase it and increase it.... (Hayden)
4- Naturally just know how to ride fast (Rossi)

[Nemesis]

I think lots of B group riders are doin A group pace already.

Yup, especially those who've gotten black flagged. :2fingercouch

[zman]

Yup them guys are all bad news :notooth

[Asian Dave]

I'd say comfort level.

In the A group, I get better lap times, cleaner lines and less traffic. Faster riders pass you and there's less grouped riders/trains. Although I do feel that I'm pushing it a little bit more physically to maintain the pace.

In B group, I can engine brake more. Pace is a little more relaxed. I don't feel I need to be either on the throttle or on the brake. More friends to ride with, but as I get faster, you're not really riding w/ them anymore. B group has a wider range of skills. Some sandbaggers and some C group riders not quite ready to move up. It's easier to pass the slower riders, but sometimes their lines are unpredictable.

I think riding with faster riders is a great way for you to improve. You realize that you can take turns much quicker and follow their lines. But it comes down to each individuals comfort level. If you're not comfortable, you're not ready to move up.

[Kurosaki]

When I am close enough in the lap times I will try A group and see if I am ready. While to go yet though....
Maybe next time we hit the track we can work each other up to A group. :idunno

[Gman]

A group at bigwillow with the usual suspects can be surprising for new A group riders.

[Globetrotter]

Not for me. Once they start to pull away you're main focus no longer becomes a "learning process" but rather "desperation" in trying to keep up which can and will lead to you biffin' it. Taking baby steps is my way.

There's no point trying to follow someone who's way faster than you. That just leads to the situation you described.

The key is finding someone who's just a little faster than you. They won't "pull away" and instead usually tow you (whether they realize it or not) to brake later/gas sooner/carry more corner speed/try a different line/etc. I did this same thing in race practice for the AMA a few weeks ago and dropped threeseconds from my previous best time. Try it next time.

[Spaceboy]

I'd say comfort level.

In the A group, I get better lap times, cleaner lines and less traffic. Faster riders pass you and there's less grouped riders/trains. Although I do feel that I'm pushing it a little bit more physically to maintain the pace.

In B group, I can engine brake more. Pace is a little more relaxed. I don't feel I need to be either on the throttle or on the brake. More friends to ride with, but as I get faster, you're not really riding w/ them anymore. B group has a wider range of skills. Some sandbaggers and some C group riders not quite ready to move up. It's easier to pass the slower riders, but sometimes their lines are unpredictable.

I think riding with faster riders is a great way for you to improve. You realize that you can take turns much quicker and follow their lines. But it comes down to each individuals comfort level. If you're not comfortable, you're not ready to move up.

I guess I just feel the most comfortable in "A" group then. I feel that I learn more from each session from being there and I do analyze the video I take when out there to see where I need to improve my line or my braking and throttle points for next time. I guess thats just me though. :idunno

[MOOCHER]

I am not fast for a or b
I like c its fun and I pass people

[bRiT636]

Maybe next time we hit the track we can work each other up to A group. :idunno

lol I think I need professional (see expensive... ) help. Superbike school soon?

[FightingChance]

It's all about D group.

http://www.pocketbike.ch/Index/Images/ursgp201.jpg

[cookiebug79]

... I pass people

lies.

[sr9004u]

Im a track whore 20 to 25 days a year and heres some thoughts from an oldster.....
I prefer A group and often start there I can keep up and stay out of the way when I need to, the passing is close but usually clean.If its a new track Ill start B and move up asap, I tend to tire out and the end of the day and drop to B so I can relax and not worry about being run over....I mean Streets! That place tires my 43yr old ass out quick. Ill be running in B group on the 8th at Buttonwillow so I can ride with my pal Malkey and enjoy the day,if Im asked to move up Ill move up.
Its a comfort level for me,some A groups are slow and some are really fast,depending on the group of people riding Ill take what I feel will be the safe and saner group either A/B....
My buddy Kurt gets pissed when I drop down but its a comfort thing.
I moved up to A group last year after Rudy from Trackdaz said I was riding around in B.....It was a huge confidence boost, so if your not sure grab a control rider and ask them for there great wisdom on helping you decide if your A/B/ or even C.

[Malkey]

Like many others it is comfort level thing. Plus I watch the A group and can tell I'm not ready, or that fast. :)

[badmonkey]

I feel like i'm right on the border of A & B. I've ridden A and dropped huge chunks off my laptimes, and hated B because of the traffic. But these days, if I signed up in A i think my mental blocks, reinforced by my lack of riding this year, would hinder me more while trying to ride A pace.

[Indetrucks]

If you want to go faster... you need to run with the A group.

I know of a handful of people that in one session bumping up, they knocked 2-5 seconds off their lap times. Not saying they were pushing it, but they were able to ride a comfortable pace. B group riders and the "general pace" is pretty slow. People find that the slower pace was really holding them up. The scariest riding I ever did was the 1 session in C group and the 1/2 season in B group. I have yet to be scared by another rider since being moved to A group.

I know it's not all about lap times and it's about having fun "while staying safe" But that being said... there are a lot of you in B that NEED to move up.

Funny this topic came up, just yesterday while watching the GP race I was thinking how I wished there was an A+ group (or something like that) I know that's wishful thinking, but it would be rad to have a group that you could ride your pants off in.

yeah yeah yeah.. I know... It's called Racing...


But yeah, back on topic.. You'll shave some MAD time and ride much stronger moving to A. People will pass you in a corner at a speed you never woulda thought possible. This only boosts your confidence and trust in your bike & tires.

[420]

Funny this topic came up, just yesterday while watching the GP race I was thinking how I wished there was an A+ group (or something like that) I know that's wishful thinking, but it would be rad to have a group that you could ride your pants off in.

yeah yeah yeah.. I know... It's called Racing...


How many times does it have to hit you on the head before you get the hint.... :igot1

:fawkdance

[triplestack3]

Like many others it is comfort level thing. Plus I watch the A group and can tell I'm not ready, or that fast. :)

sometimes i sit and watch A group and think "oh man those guys sure are fast!"
when you get out there and start riding, it's different - doesn't really seem like everyone is going quite as fast.

[Indetrucks]

How many times does it have to hit you on the head before you get the hint.... :igot1

:fawkdance

Probably at least a handful more times

[Da Baddest Mofo]

I enjoy no session trackdays and would love to ride in the A group, but I'm not that fast and will be in everyone's way, so I stay in the B group out of respect to the racers who use track days for practicing. Otherwise I feel much safer in the A group with 100% predictable racers.

[Gman]

Alex if you hold your line you wont be in anyones way. They will go around you in 1 second.

[cbrizzle]

If you want to go faster... you need to run with the A group.

I know of a handful of people that in one session bumping up, they knocked 2-5 seconds off their lap times. Not saying they were pushing it, but they were able to ride a comfortable pace. B group riders and the "general pace" is pretty slow. People find that the slower pace was really holding them up. The scariest riding I ever did was the 1 session in C group and the 1/2 season in B group. I have yet to be scared by another rider since being moved to A group.

I know it's not all about lap times and it's about having fun "while staying safe" But that being said... there are a lot of you in B that NEED to move up.

Funny this topic came up, just yesterday while watching the GP race I was thinking how I wished there was an A+ group (or something like that) I know that's wishful thinking, but it would be rad to have a group that you could ride your pants off in.

yeah yeah yeah.. I know... It's called Racing...


But yeah, back on topic.. You'll shave some MAD time and ride much stronger moving to A. People will pass you in a corner at a speed you never woulda thought possible. This only boosts your confidence and trust in your bike & tires.'

hey maybe you should try racing:fawkdance

[badmonkey]

If you want to go faster... you need to run with the A group.

I know of a handful of people that in one session bumping up, they knocked 2-5 seconds off their lap times. Not saying they were pushing it, but they were able to ride a comfortable pace.

I still remember BW last year. I was in the B-group turning 2:19's-2:25's because a) I was slow, and b) the traffic was insane.

I switched to A after 2 sessions and started putting down 2:11's fairly easily. Part of it was less traffic, and the other part was following guys through my slowest sectors of the track/mitch giving me some pointers.

When I checked my laptimer and saw the laptimes I had just run, I was pretty stunned--didn't even feel like i was pushing that much harder.

[bRiT636]

lol I ran b+ at buttonwillow with keigwins..... Fastest B group I have ran in - I spent most of the day getting lapped....

[420]

I still remember BW last year. I was in the B-group turning 2:19's-2:25's because a) I was slow, and b) the traffic was insane.
I switched to A after 2 sessions and started putting down 2:11's fairly easily. Part of it was less traffic, and the other part was following guys through my slowest sectors of the track/mitch giving me some pointers.
When I checked my laptimer and saw the laptimes I had just run, I was pretty stunned--didn't even feel like i was pushing that much harder.

Congrats that is awesome progress.....


Out of curiosity, what are "A" group times at the various local tracks?

[Kurosaki]

lol I ran b+ at buttonwillow with keigwins..... Fastest B group I have ran in - I spent most of the day getting lapped....

That was a good day.:scooter

[badmonkey]

Congrats that is awesome progress.....


Out of curiosity, what are "A" group times at the various local tracks?

hmm. median/mean? or min?

WSIR: low 1:30's
BW: 2:10-2:15
SOWS: not sure. high 20's?
Pahrump: no idea.

[trackpimp]

hmm. median/mean? or min?

WSIR: low 1:30's
BW: 2:10-2:15
SOWS: not sure. high 20's?
Pahrump: no idea.


BW is closer to low 2's and under.
SOW: Low to mid 20's.

[Spaceboy]

BW is closer to low 2's and under.
SOW: Low to mid 20's.

+1 I consider my speed to be about average for "A" group. At BW last year I was in the 2:05 range. Streets I believe about 1:25ish, Big track 1:35ish.

[badmonkey]

BW is closer to low 2's and under.
SOW: Low to mid 20's.

Yeah, i could be way off. with all the configurations you can run BW etc etc.

[Malkey]

SOW: Low to mid 20's.
Oh yeah, no A group for me then. lol

[trackpimp]

last trackday @ Streets, I got down to mid to low 1:23's on the "Project R6". Racebodywork, GPR Stabilizer, Rearsets, Tires the only mods..

Still running OEM Gearing, pipe, pump gas, etc..

[JackOfAll]

BW is closer to low 2's and under.
SOW: Low to mid 20's.


BW track record is 1:47 I think...so A grp cutoff (low 2s) about 16-17 seconds higher
WSIR track record is 1:19...so A group cutoff (say low 1:30s) about14-15 seconds higher
SOW track record is 1:16 I think...so A group cutoff about 8-9 seconds higher...

Why do you think there should be a smaller spread for SOW? I'd think mid-hi 20s would be acceptable for A at SOw.:idunno

[bRiT636]

Oh yeah, no A group for me then. lol

lol yeah my '4-5 seconds faster is needed ' just turned into 7-8 seconds. I think I can do low 1:30's pretty consistent at SOW.

[Indetrucks]

Congrats that is awesome progress.....


Out of curiosity, what are "A" group times at the various local tracks?

SOW 1:22's
Button Willow 1:58's (clockwise)
Pahrump 1:43's
LVMS 1:23's
Big Willow 1:28's (Only ridden it once and it was my first time on the 999)
Fontana (never been)

At least that's what I've done in A group

[Gman]

SOW 1:25
Button 2:03
Pahrump 1:47
BigWillow 1:30

[cookiebug79]

SOW 3:26
Button 5:47 (be kind, it was my first track day)
Pahrump 3:52
BigWillow 3:30

Skillz, I haz dem.
:noteeth


I'm obviously kidding. I have never timed myself, so I cannot confirm my amazing speed.

[420]

SOW 3:26
Button 5:47 (be kind, it was my first track day)
Pahrump 3:52
BigWillow 3:30

Skillz, I haz dem.
:noteeth


Prime candidate for the new "Z" group we are creating. Primarily for bicycles and pedestrians, with the occasional segway, but I think you'll fit in nicely!

[MOOCHER]

SOW 3:26
Button 5:47 (be kind, it was my first track day)
Pahrump 3:52
BigWillow 3:30

Skillz, I haz dem.
:noteeth


I'm obviously kidding. I have never timed myself, so I cannot confirm my amazing speed.

:ohno:ohno:ohno:ohno

[lost nomad]

I'd say comfort level.

In the A group, I get better lap times, cleaner lines and less traffic. Faster riders pass you and there's less grouped riders/trains. Although I do feel that I'm pushing it a little bit more physically to maintain the pace.

In B group, I can engine brake more. Pace is a little more relaxed. I don't feel I need to be either on the throttle or on the brake. More friends to ride with, but as I get faster, you're not really riding w/ them anymore. B group has a wider range of skills. Some sandbaggers and some C group riders not quite ready to move up. It's easier to pass the slower riders, but sometimes their lines are unpredictable.

I think riding with faster riders is a great way for you to improve. You realize that you can take turns much quicker and follow their lines. But it comes down to each individuals comfort level. If you're not comfortable, you're not ready to move up.

It's funny, and I think I've talked to you about this before, but I recall you saying pretty much similar to this when you first bumped up to B from C... I think you did it at pahrump two years ago? you're absolutely right, it's all about comfort level, I think I might have been lucky to get myself into a slow A group pace, but I was wreckless about it, this year I started back out in C group again and have been slowly working myself back up to a decent B pace, but at least I feel a lot more in control. One day I'd still like to be able to comfortably ride in A.

[lost nomad]

Hey so to compensate for newbie trackdays why don't the track orgs here run some B-/B+/A groups for us? :naughty2

[JackOfAll]

Hey so to compensate for newbie trackdays why don't the track orgs here run some B-/B+/A groups for us? :naughty2


I believe Kegwins does some of these..
In fact looking at their schedule...they only have two dates where C group is allowed...others are B-,B+A or even A,B+B+ with no B- allowed

Their A at BW is under 2:11
B+ is 2:08-2:20
B- is 2:20-2:45

[lost nomad]

I believe Kegwins does some of these..
In fact looking at their schedule...they only have two dates where C group is allowed...others are B-,B+A or even A,B+B+ with no B- allowed

and here I thought I was being original :lmfao
any you guys think it'd be a success (attendance-wise) to try a few of these?

[Research Monkey]

Hey so to compensate for newbie trackdays why don't the track orgs here run some B-/B+/A groups for us? :naughty2

or a 2 group format C/B- and B+/A

[Research Monkey]

You farking A group people and your laptimes! :(

My laptimes...

SOW: 1:33-1:35's
BW CW: 2:12-2:16's
Fontucky: 1:41-1:45's (A group is mid 20's to mid 30's)
Big Willow: 1:37-1:40's
LVMS: 1:33-1:35's

didnt get to check pahrump and I didnt time myself when i ran BW CCW

[Steve]

Now that I know I have a finite amount of time on this planet, and after just one track academy, I'm going to just have to ride A group and then go pro..http://www.gravesport.com/Race_Team/2008/twin600ss.jpg..and get one of these..

[trackpimp]

We, along with a few other orgs have experimented with 2 B groups, and a C group.. Norcal seems to be ahead of socal in some regard I think.

Maybe that's the way of the future? We shall see

[triplestack3]

you people and your lap timers...

[420]

We, along with a few other orgs have experimented with 2 B groups, and a C group.. Norcal seems to be ahead of socal in some regard I think.

Maybe that's the way of the future? We shall see

Lance is an Engineer at heart. I have no doubt he has gigs of data on laptimes, # of crashes, grouping and the whole ball of wax. Kegwins does a good job...

[bushido69]

It's funny, and I think I've talked to you about this before, but I recall you saying pretty much similar to this when you first bumped up to B from C... I think you did it at pahrump two years ago? you're absolutely right, it's all about comfort level, I think I might have been lucky to get myself into a slow A group pace, but I was wreckless about it, this year I started back out in C group again and have been slowly working myself back up to a decent B pace, but at least I feel a lot more in control. One day I'd still like to be able to comfortably ride in A.me too :biggrin2

[Canyonball]

There's no point trying to follow someone who's way faster than you. That just leads to the situation you described.

The key is finding someone who's just a little faster than you. They won't "pull away" and instead usually tow you (whether they realize it or not) to brake later/gas sooner/carry more corner speed/try a different line/etc. I did this same thing in race practice for the AMA a few weeks ago and dropped threeseconds from my previous best time. Try it next time.

Well said. This is actually something that Top Gun flight instructors have said in a sense too. They know the skill level of their students and will beat them just enough to teach them vs humiliate them. Wise words and a sign of any good instructor no matter what the niche is (flying, riding, fighting etc).

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I started riding back in '05 and back then I was doing canyon rides every weekend and trackdays once or twice a month for the first two years of riding. For the latter part of those two years, I had no problem running race group from the get go at trackdays.

For the last two years however, I haven't been riding the streets and maybe do a trackday once every 6 months, if that...

That being said, I have to acclimate to the speed and lean angles in track riding every time I hit the track nowadays. The first session out, I'm probably a fast C-group rider/slow-B (comfort-wise). This is why I stay in B-group.

However, if I do a weekend at Pahrump I'll tell Aaron that I'll be doing B group on Sat, then bump up on Sun because I know that'll give me ample time to get comfortable riding A-group. Typically, I start getting back in the groove and I'm able and running A-group pace after lunch even though I'm in B-group. However, I'm not making A-group passes and I'm actually reluctant to pass some people because I know I'm in B-group and I don't want to spook anyone. At some of those points, yes I wish I were in A-group to keep my flow going, but I'm also considerate of others and not out there racing, so I don't really mind slowing my pace and waiting for a better time to make B-group passes.

Perfect example of me holding back on making passes and then following Dave at the end of vid... YouTube - Troy Asian Dave and I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9402KLZ3t4)


That being said, I also don't like riding "10/10ths" all day sometimes in A-group, when I ran A-group. I just like to go out and ride and not get caught up in the hustle of always looking to pass the guy in front of you. That and the majority of my friends ride in B. Even if some of my B-group friends are a bit slower, I just look at it like a canyon ride and just follow and ride tandem.

I'm not at trackdays to really improve my lap times, though I still work on bettering my technique and comfort braking later etc without necessarily improving my lap times. I do trackdays to ride, and ride with my friends... $.02

[orange_dog]

Sometimes the B group is scary, weird or both. Last time I rode with you guys, Dustin, was 4/17 at big Willow. That day there were probably 11 or 12 crashes, most of them in B. Every session seemed to get red flagged, then we would grid up and watch the truck go out and pick up the poor guy that biffed. Then I spent large portions of the day on my R6 stuck behind literbike riders that were at the bottom of B group skill (I'm a cautious passer). Those are the frustrating times when I think about going to A group.

All that said, my lap times don't justify moving up. The fastest lap I could manage that day was a 1:39. My bike's bone stock (except for a slip-on + PCIII) and I use street/track tires, not DOT race tires. Maybe I could lap faster with the free-flowing nature of the A group, but I don't feel confident about it yet and would like to see how I do with a rebuilt suspension (my bike's 4 years old and about to finally get rebuilt shock/forks w/ the correct springs for my weight). Maybe better tires would help too. Or maybe I need another track school. :D We'll see.

[trackpimp]

Sometimes the B group is scary, weird or both. Last time I rode with you guys, Dustin, was 4/17 at big Willow. That day there were probably 11 or 12 crashes, most of them in B. Every session seemed to get red flagged, then we would grid up and watch the truck go out and pick up the poor guy that biffed. Then I spent large portions of the day on my R6 stuck behind literbike riders that were at the bottom of B group skill (I'm a cautious passer). Those are the frustrating times when I think about going to A group.

All that said, my lap times don't justify moving up. The fastest lap I could manage that day was a 1:39. My bike's bone stock (except for a slip-on + PCIII) and I use street/track tires, not DOT race tires. Maybe I could lap faster with the free-flowing nature of the A group, but I don't feel confident about it yet and would like to see how I do with a rebuilt suspension (my bike's 4 years old and about to finally get rebuilt shock/forks w/ the correct springs for my weight). Maybe better tires would help too. Or maybe I need another track school. :D We'll see.


Sounds like you're close. 39's is actually faster than a lot of Novice racers at Willow:idunno

[KTK]

I usually run A at SoW now and i think its a freakin blast. I feel more consistent, much less traffic, and getting passed by the crazy fast people just makes you think about how much faster you can go and lean the bike. if its SoW ill be in A group.. any other track probably B group since i have little to no experience in any other tracks.

[cbrizzle]

the key is to shave your balls. That way, your leathers cling to you tighter, giving you the aerodynamic edge you need to move from B to A.

[trackpimp]

the key is to shave your balls. That way, your leathers cling to you tighter, giving you the aerodynamic edge you need to move from B to A.

Shaving your head too!

[Orguss]

Shaving your head too!

Dont forget the arse too...if your hairy down there :D:fawkdance

[Da Baddest Mofo]

I tried the race group this weekend and while it's no doubt easier for me than the Intermediate (no passing, duh) my pace is not at that level.

[karrdick]

BW is closer to low 2's and under.
SOW: Low to mid 20's.

Dustin, with that... I'll keep my slow butt in B.

[Indetrucks]

Dustin, with that... I'll keep my slow butt in B.

Welcome to the Forum!
Hey, nothing wrong with B group :2thumbsup

[karrdick]

Thanks man. Thanks for the welcome.


See you at BW on August 9th Dustin.